Runciman Surname DNA Project Blog

18th: Shifted

2010-11-18T12:31:00.000+13:00

Getting too confused about where to post information.
If that was confusing me, the author, no doubt you, the visitor, was also confused.

A new (multiple) project(s) diary, Runcimans All, has now been created, and covers both the One Name Study and DNA Project activity.
Working assumption is that if you are interested in one, you are likely interested in the other!

These posts have all been migrated, but also left here to cope with any links that may still point to posts here.

Bookmark the new page.

4th: George & Janet (DARLING) RUNCIMAN

2010-11-04T23:08:00.000+13:00

A very brief descendant summary for the family of George and Janet (DARLING) RUNCIMAN has now been included on the DNA Summary Patriarchs page.
As it is oriented to lines who may be able to furnish a dna project representative for this line (ie a direct male line RUNCIMAN descendant of George) those interested in some of the others in the family may care to look at the RUNCIMAN One Name Study pages instead where a slightly fuller chart, but still incomplete, is included.

23rd: Confirming signature

2010-09-24T13:59:00.003+12:00

New results just in provide a confirming signature for the line of Thomas and Isabella (CRAIG), Thomas being a descendant of Thomas and Alison (GRIEVE), and at 37 markers, show an exact match to the Earlston/Wanton Walls line of David and Margaret (BROWN).
Supplementary pages have been updated, including the overall chart providing a theoretical lineage 1.

18th: Possible lineage 1 linkages?

2010-08-18T10:47:00.006+12:00

The summary results page has been updated to include the last two sets of results (lineage 1).
In addition the patriarchs page has had a link corrected and also now includes a brief outline for one of the Perthshire RUNCIMAN lines, that of Alexander and Elizabeth (BOYD), some of whose descendants emigrated to Ontario. Within Scotland associated places were Errol and Inchture, Perthshire; Orwell, Kinross; Penicuik, Midlothian.
This looks like the line of Robert (Bob) RUNCIMAN MPP Leeds & Grenville, Ontario.
As usual, a representative for this, and any other, line would be welcome.

Take a look at the new theoretical dna signature chart for Lineage 1.
All suggestions on how to better link up the related families welcome.

This blog: the labels for posts are in the process of being converted from full names to forenames for RUNCIMANs and surnames only for those who are not - purely to save space in the list of labels.

12th: Lineage 1 results added

2010-08-12T20:54:00.001+12:00

Full 67 marker results are now in for Peter (R-12) and Jim (R-10), and show in the overall grid for the Supplementary pages.
Their individual pages have also been updated to include the genetic distances to their matches.

Still to come: the dna signature chart update to include them in the overall picture (theoretical), as the Family Tree DNA Time Predictor isn't yet showing the percentages.

We now have excellent matches between four lines in Lineage 1: that of William of Crail (with East Lothian descendants), the Runcimans of Earlston and Lauder (Wanton Walls), and now also Alexander and Janet (HENDRIE) of Meikle Pinkerton (ELN), and Thomas and Alison (GRIEVE) of Dunbar.
Mostly however they are represented by a sole participant. Distant cousins of those already in the project would be gratefully received to clarify and confirm how to link these families up for the DNA Signature.

To join the project, read the information about testing available on our summary pages on the World Families Network, and click the Order link from there to ensure that you are getting the discounts available by testing through a surname project.
Some of the lines we are particularly looking for at the moment, (but all are welcome) are shown in our Wanted! pages.

6th: Lineage 1c & d

2010-08-06T22:14:00.005+12:00

Although only preliminary results are in for two of the new kits, Jim (R-10) and Peter (R-12), it does rather look like we have a match with Lineage 1.
The supplementary project pages now include Lineage 1c and 1d to reflect this.
This has also led to Alexander (marr. Janet HENDRIE) being added to the pages and an extension to the Wanted! chart for Thomas and Jean (SIMPSON), given that we now have a bit of a conundrum to solve.
Representatives for each of the suggested sons of Thomas and Jean are being sought to help clarify the dna results so far received.

15th: Progress report

2010-07-15T20:08:00.003+12:00

Another of the outstanding kits has reached the lab.
Must have been just in time for the week's batching as both (R-12) and the earlier one back, (R-10), are in batch 369, with first results scheduled for 27th August, final by 10th Sep.

26th: Sale extended

2010-06-26T23:38:00.003+12:00

Family Tree DNA have extended the time period for ordering kits at the discount prices until Jun 30th - so still time to be in and find where your RUNCIMAN line "fits".
Read the details in the blog for the 5th.

Summary result page has been updated with placeholders for the three kits ordered as part of the sale and hopefully winging there way back to the lab - details to follow.

16th: Two more kits ordered

2010-06-16T12:52:00.002+12:00

The project has grown by two, details later once results are in.

Still 9 days to go to get your order in at sale prices - much too good an opportunity to miss.
We'd particularly love to hear from you if your RUNCIMAN line is not yet represented.

9th: Temporary email glitch

2010-06-09T11:19:00.001+12:00

Be aware that the project email address (RuncimanDNA) is currently undergoing a bit of a gmail glitch, hopefully temporary.
Should it bounce, try again later!

5th: Family Tree DNA Summer Sale

2010-06-05T11:11:00.000+12:00

Now would be an excellent time to jump in and represent your RUNCIMAN line in the Surname DNA Project.
Our testing company, FamilyTree DNA, have announced a "sizzling summer sale" which reduces the already discounted test prices available via the project by a further $40US.

	Y-DNA37 for $119 (Regular price would be $149)
	Y-DNA67 for $199 (Regular price would be $239)
	Y-DNA37+mtDNA for $159 (Combined test would cost $238)

The promotion will start June 5 and will end June 25. Kits need to be paid for by June 30, 2010.

The 37 marker test would be the minimum to determine which, if any, of the existing documented lines you may belong to.

To make sure that any order is at the above prices, use the Join Project links on any of the project pages:

Supplementary pages

Summary pages

There are still several known Borders lines that are particularly being sought, so we would love to hear from you, or any other RUNCIMANs from anywhere interested in their past.

16th: Lineage 2b created

2010-05-16T23:37:00.004+12:00

Not yet sure if we have a glitch in the Thomas & Mary (REDPATH) RUNCIMAN line or not.
Our rep for this line is haplogroup R1b1b2 but doesn't match those participants already in that haplogroup.
The prior Lineage 2 has been renamed Lineage 2a and Thomas and Mary are now Lineage 2b.
Both supplementary and summary pages have been updated to include the new results.

Given these results, the project would really like to hear from other direct male line RUNCIMANs on any of the potentially related lines to validate this, and other signatures.

To join the project, follow the information at the Summary pages Join link.
Testing is cheaper if done via the project, and subsidies may be available for eligible candidates of particularly wanted lines.
Contact the project administrator for more information.

16th: Lineage 1 - theoretical dna signature chart

2010-04-16T02:43:00.003+12:00

The Lineage 1 DNA Signature Charts page has had a very, very theoretical first cut at how to join up the two genetically linked lines of William of Crail and David who was the forebear of the Wanton Walls and Earlston line.

15th: Thomas & Jane (Simpson) Runciman

2010-04-16T02:37:00.004+12:00

Read the intro for Thomas and Jane (Simpson) Runciman and make up your own mind as to whether or not there are two separate Thomas and Jane families or not.

Better still, if you are direct male-line descendant of any of the sons shown here as possible descendants, please follow the project join link and help us (dis)prove the theories (at least 37 markers, preferably 67).

Or if ineligible to join, ie not a direct male line Runciman descendant, try and find a candidate who is, and/or contribute to the kitty to help subsidise kits for wanted participants.

7th: Another kit at the lab

2010-04-08T15:32:00.004+12:00

Crossed fingers for a match with one or t'other of the represented lineages and no glitches along the ancestral paths as we now have a kit in progress for the line of Thomas and Mary (REDPATH) RUNCIMAN.

Summary pages updated to reflect the kit in progress, and to include the remaining panels of Kevin (R-8)'s results (one of two matching representatives from the line of William of Crail, and an excellent match to the Earlston/Wanton Walls lines).

Check out the Wanted! pages every so often for other documented lines where direct male line RUNCIMAN representatives are needed to test assorted theories on how the lines may, or may not, link up.

16th: As promised

2010-03-16T02:31:00.003+13:00

Wanted! pages now include a brief lineage for some of Thomas and Mary (REDPATH) RUNCIMAN's family, along with a linkage to Thomas' likely parents, Thomas and Jane (SIMPSON) RUNCIMAN who married at Dunbar in 1783.

15th: Wanted! update

2010-03-15T13:06:00.008+13:00

Another direct male RUNCIMAN line has been added to the Wanted! chart for Thomas and Alison (GRIEVE).
Given the recent unexpected dna match we are now even more curious as to whether or not William of Crail and Thomas married Alison GRIEVE, can be proven, or at least not disproven, to be the sons of Robert and Janet (SINCLAIR) RUNCIMAN.
So, a dna candidate from any of Thomas and Alison's lines would be most welcome to join the project - subsidies may exist for a documented descendant willing to take up this challenge.

Read about dna testing in general, Family Tree DNA tests in particular, and if interested in adding more placed pieces in the RUNCIMAN jigsaw, and comfortable with the process, follow the join project links and order a test, or the webmaster links on the project pages for more information.

Tests can be as anonymous as you wish. Those showing by name on any of the above pages have agreed to be so shown, but results can be simply displayed by a kit or project number, and need not be publically linked to any particular tree.
Although we all hope that any RUNCIMAN being tested will of course match one or other of the known trees, this is by no means guaranteed.
Things happen now, have always happened in the past, and will always happen in the future to confuse family historians and genealogists. That's life.
In dna circles, a non match is usually called a NPE (non paternal event). If a non match is found, it doesn't change who you are, but may of course cause you to regard whichever of your unknown ancestors may have been responsible in a new light!!

Two other lines will be added to the Wanted! lists shortly (when time permits):
- Thomas and Mary (REDPATH) of Innerwick and Dunbar, Thomas being the son of a Thomas and Jane (possibly SIMPSON),
and also that of a Perth line,
- John and Susan (DONALDSON) RUNCIMAN of Inchture ++.

12th: Fisher folk and farmer folk DO mix

2010-03-12T22:50:00.005+13:00

DNA results just in show an excellent match between our newly represented line, that of William of Crail. The two representatives, Jim (R-7) and Kevin (R-8) are a 12/12 (so far) to each other, and Jim is showing as a 66/67 match to one of the descendants of the Wanton Walls Runcimans, and a 65/67 match to the other.
This rather ruins a theory of mine that had so far held true over various families, namely that the fisher folk and the farmer folk tended not to mix and match.
The supplementary pages have been updated to include preliminary results and links for these new findings.
Much more research and speculation is now needed to try and figure out how on earth these two genetically linked families are likely to connect in practice.

17th: Yet another East Lothian pedigree

2010-02-17T11:48:00.006+13:00

Patriarchs page updated to include an outline pedigree for the line of Thomas and Jean (SIMPSON) RUNCIMAN who married in 1783 at Dunbar, East Lothian.
Notes about some of the family have already been included on the Runciman One Names Study (ONS) pages.
It would seem highly likely that there is a link to Lineage 4, the family of Thomas and Alison (GRIEVE) RUNCIMAN, given they were all around the same places at the same times.
Hopefully, there's a willing representative out there to join the dna project and prove this theory.
Click on the Join Project link to read about how to join, and to order a test (37 markers minimum, 67 preferred), after reading the background about DNA testing in general at the links on the top lhs of that page.
Testing is cheaper if you join via a project.

14th: Thomas & Alison (GRIEVE)

2010-02-14T12:54:00.004+13:00

The Wanted! pages have been updated to include a dna oriented outline descendant chart for Thomas and Alison (GRIEVE) RUNCIMAN.
As stated, a participant is particularly wanted to test a theory that this line is also that of William of Crail, both being sons of Robert and Janet (SINCLAIR) RUNCIMAN of Dirleton and Prestonpans.
Candidates look a little sparse on the ground at this stage.
Links are included to/from the Runciman One Name Study(ONS) as available.
Patriarchs page updated to include the outline Lineage 4 pedigree.

4th: One step further

2010-02-05T09:33:00.007+13:00

Keep getting sidetracked as I see what can be found for the pedigree of the latest two recruits, Jim (R-7) and Kevin (R-8), but in the meantime place holders exist on the Patriarchs page, and Supplementary pages to show Ros is researching this line, and would like to verify the paper trail which links them back at John & Jean (BARRIE) RUNCIMAN of Dirleton, East Lothian (ELN), with John being the son of William & Elizabeth (JAMIESON) RUNCIMAN of Crail, Fife (FIF).
With this line's subsequent connections to Dirleton we are curious as to whether or not there will be a match to Lineage 2
The summary result page has also had a tidy up behind the scenes to make it easier to maintain, so please forgive any outstanding formatting problems as this process continues.

There must be plenty of other RUNCIMAN lines out there able to be represented to see how this jigsaw fits together, check out our Wanted! pages every so often for those particularly being sought at the moment, but even if your line is not listed there, do come and join us.

30th: Patriarch page revamp

2010-01-30T20:31:00.005+13:00

The Summary Patriarchs Page has been revamped, but no new pedigrees yet included.
It was a tidy up of the code behind the scenes to make it easier to maintain, all in readiness for adding the details for our Lineage 3, or possibly 2a, for the two new kits in varying stages of making their way to the lab.

In addition, there's a new link on the top rhs of this blog, that for the Runciman One Name Study (GOONS registration applied for).
Thought it was about time I brought some order to my rather contact driven research and it should provide a searchable repository for the data collected over the years.

With this recent burst of activity, it's time to try and find representatives for some of the as yet un-represented lines. Must be plenty more out there, and available people to represent them.
I did a search of the Surnames of England and Wales - ONS list, plugging in RUN*MAN, although I didn't actually expect to find any other variants still in existence, putting most of them down to the idiosyncrasies of parish clerks in years gone by.

The database is an extract from the Office of National Statistics database, and contains a list of surnames in use in England, Wales and the Isle of Mann in September 2002, having been established in 1998, with births since added, but deaths not taken away, grand total, 54.4 million people, but only nearly 270,000 surnames (those with less than 5 occurrences having been excluded).

RUNCIMAN comes in with 446 names, ranking 12,425th,
RUNCHMAN is still in existence with 77 names, ranking 39,021th and
RUNCIEMAN also still exists, with 61, ranking 44,978th.

So, out of those 584 people, someone must be interested, mustn't they?
And that's only England, Wales and the Isle of Mann.

27th: William RUNCIMAN of Crail

2010-01-27T17:51:00.004+13:00

And another participant in the project.
R-8 and R-7 would like to prove the paper trail that links them at John RUNCIMAN and Jean BARRY of Dirleton, John being the son of William of Crail, a fisherman drowned in 1765 (by 1768 his children are recorded as being in North Berwick).
Will be interesting to see who, if any, of the existing RUNCIMAN families they most closely match.
Pedigrees will be added as time permits.

8th: New participant

2009-12-09T23:54:00.001+13:00

Our project has just increased in size - one more participant, R-7.
Further details presumed to be coming.

See the Project Diary for the overall DNA Project Portal Site for details of the test discounts available until the end of this month (Dec 2009).
It's a good time to jump in if you've hit that brick wall and want to see how genetic genealogy can break that wall down.

Or see if you may match the two Borders RUNCIMAN lines currently represented by our 6 existing participants.

14th: Upgrade offer

2009-05-14T15:27:00.002+12:00

FamilyTree DNA are having an upgrade promotion for a week, so it is a good time to see what additional markers may show.
Should eligible participants wish to avail themselves of the offer, follow the instructions in the email you will be sent by Family Tree DNA (I don't yet know how much of a discount, but the promo I received said an average of 25%, and the normal 37 to 67 upgrade is $99 US, and 12 to 25, or 25 to 37 $US 49).
Note the instructions in the flier:
To order this special offer log into your personal page and click on the special offers link on the left hand navigation bar.

26th: Projects Portal RUNCIMANs updated

2008-11-26T15:58:00.001+13:00

Check out the updated RUNCIMAN lineage pages.
I finally had time to catch up on a lot of the data missing behind the scenes.
There is probably no different information available on this site than scattered over the rest, but hopefully it is helpful to have access to it all in one place, or at least links to where it all is, and the format etc is so much easier for me to do updates as and when needed, with the potential for future additions.

If you spot any mistakes, or items you'd prefer shown differently, or not shown, just let me know, these pages are for the benefit of the RUNCIMAN Surname Project.
Also check out the Wanted link. If you have a particular family you'd like to see represented there, send me a basic outline gedcom, (no data on living people please), and it can be uploaded.

Even better, if you are an eligible representative of any lines shown under any of the Wanted links, there are some new test discounts available until the end of December.
Check out the details on the WFN pages for further details, looks like about $30US off.

I am aware that there are likely some missing or inconsistent links still to be fixed, particularly once you get into the haplogroup charts, so please bear with me while I continue tidying up behind the scenes.

And, yet again (3rd time), I've requested that Google stop marking this blog as spam. Each time it gets unlocked, it gets marked again straight away. Grrrr. However, I'll persist with this format for the project diary for a while yet as I really like the ability to filter by labels.

19th: Another good match

2008-11-19T16:05:00.001+13:00

Full 37 marker results now in for the Peruvian connection of the family of James and Agnes (HERIOT) RUNCIMAN, and there's a good match with the NZ and American representatives.

Results table updated, and reorganised slightly, to better reflect the similarities between these lines.

Are no other RUNCIMAN families curious as to whether or not there's a match with the Scottish Borders farming community?
Any of the fisher folk?

How about some of the Fife lines, or the Australian immigrants?

Welcome

2008-11-03T10:59:00.002+13:00

Welcome to the new Runciman Surname DNA Project Blog.
Set up Nov 2008 to hold the Runciman Surname DNA Project diary and any discussions that may ensue from the project results.
The previous diary will be gradually transferred across.
DNA Project participants, and active RUNCIMAN family researchers are welcome to send me an email to gain authorship rights to this blog.
Anyone may add comments.

3rd: Patriarch page updates

2008-10-03T12:01:00.001+13:00

Patriarchs page updated to show which line the latest kit orders represent.

19th: 6th kit - Peruvian connection

2008-09-19T11:59:00.002+12:00

6th kit ordered, from the line of the Peruvian branch of George Anderson RUNCIMAN, great grandson of James and Agnes (HERIOT) RUNCIMAN.

Aug 29, 2008: 5th kit ordered

2008-08-29T11:56:00.002+12:00

5th kit ordered, from the line of Thomas & Isabella (LINTON) RUNCIMAN - should match the James and Agnes (HERIOT) RUNCIMAN lines, given that Thomas is their son.

Aug 4, 2008: New tests ordered

2008-08-04T11:55:00.001+12:00

Upgrades from 37 to 67 markers ordered for the Wanton Walls lines to see what that might tell us about closeness of relationship. Still looking for representative of the other Michigan branch believed to be related (James RUNCIMAN and Isabella CARTER).

May 12, 2008: Revised Haplogroups

2008-05-12T11:53:00.000+12:00

Results page Haplogroups updated to reflect recent updates to the Y-Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree. Check out Family Tree DNA's Haplogroup Nomenclature FAQ for more information.

Apr 4, 2008: 4th kit results - 36/37 match

2008-04-04T11:50:00.001+13:00

Final set of 37 marker results back on fourth kit , that of a descendant of James and Agnes (HERIOT) RUNCIMAN of Ayton and Dunbar. 36/37 match with the descendant of James and Janet (HOG) RUNCIMAN, which (to me) indicates that this James is indeed the son of James and Agnes, and the "missing" family that the New Zealand relations thought was "in Ohio, no further information known".

Jan 30, 2008: 3rd kit 37 marker results in

2008-01-30T11:46:00.001+13:00

Final set of 37 marker results back on third kit, that of a descendant of James & Janet (HOG) RUNCIMAN who emigrated from Selkirk to Canada.

Jan 28, 2008: 2nd kit 37 marker results in - full match

2008-01-28T11:45:00.001+13:00

Final set of results (37 markers) back on second kit, that of a descendant of William & Mary (BROWN) RUNCIMAN who emigrated to Michigan, which extended the 12/12 match with the Wanton Walls Lauder families to a 37/37 match.

Jan 27, 2008: Pedigrees updated

2008-01-27T11:22:00.000+13:00

Patriarchs pages updated and links included to go to/from the results page.

Jan 25, 2008: 3rd kit results - different lineage

2008-01-25T11:21:00.001+13:00

First set of results (12 markers) back on third kit, that of a descendant of James & Janet (HOG) RUNCIMAN who emigrated from Selkirk to Canada. No match with the Wanton Walls of Lauder descendants.

Jan 24, 2008: 2nd kit results arriving

2008-01-24T11:19:00.001+13:00

First set of results (12 markers) back on second kit, that of a descendant of William & Mary (BROWN) RUNCIMAN who emigrated to Michigan, 12/12 match with the Wanton Walls, Lauder descendant, as suspected and hoped for.

Jan 14, 2008: 1st kit results complete (37 markers)

2008-01-14T11:18:00.000+13:00

Final set of results (37 markers) back on first kit.

Jan 12, 2008: More results for 1st kit (25 markers)

2008-01-12T11:02:00.000+13:00

Second set of results (25 markers) back on first kit. No exact matches in either Family Tree DNA database or on ysearch.

Jan 9, 2008: 1st results in (12 markers)

2008-01-09T10:57:00.000+13:00

First set of results (12 markers) back on first kit, no matches with any other Family Tree DNA testees.

Jan 4, 2008: 4th kit ordered, poss. connection for the 3rd kit

2008-01-04T10:51:00.001+13:00

Fourth kit ordered, a descendant of James & Agnes (HERIOT) RUNCIMAN from Ayton/Dunbar area, descendants emigrated to New Zealand and Ohio, who may well show up as related to the third kit of Dec 10th (James and Janet (HOG) RUNCIMAN ex Selkirk to Ontario).

Dec 10, 2007: 3rd kit ordered - Selkirk to Ontario

2007-12-10T10:50:00.001+13:00

Third kit ordered, a descendant of James & Janet (HOG) RUNCIMAN originally from Selkirkshire, Scotland, emigrated to Ontario.

Dec 4, 2007: 1st kit at lab

2007-12-04T10:55:00.000+13:00

First kit has made it back to the lab, results eagerly awaited.

Nov 19, 2007: Michigan RUNCIMAN kit ordered

2007-11-19T10:44:00.002+13:00

Second kit ordered, a descendant of William & Mary (BROWN) RUNCIMAN of Michigan, USA, rumoured to be related to the Wanton Walls RUNCIMAN familiy.

Oct 18, 2007: RUNCIMAN DNA project initiated

2007-10-19T09:36:00.002+13:00

Project initiated & first kit ordered, a descendant of David and Janet (LOCKIE) RUNCIMAN of Wanton Walls, Lauder, Berwickshire, Scotland.